Saturday, March 6, 2010

PS TO RIGHTWING LIES

In case you had trouble linking to the two sites my older son Miles commented on in a previous post: I thought I'd write this fast PS with the links in it here and here so you can read them for yourself and use them if you deign to argue with anyone who still thinks the media is anything but rightwing or so rightwing intimidated it might as well be right wing.

11 comments:

harryn said...

enjoyed reading the links, and with my wife being from France and Scotland, i have a first hand familiarity with her response to the lies generated by the media - something they've been propagating for years - to the extent that the general public is totally misinformed of what actually goes on over there ...

a couple of things come to mind after reading the last two posts ...
1. if 1.8 trillion in tax cuts didn't help to stimulate the economy in Bush years - why would there be further debate on providing more ...
2. if tax paying citizens are the primary resource in a country run by a government - why wouldn't we want to universally look after their health and protect that resource -
3. its a little contradictory if you allow an agency like the FDA implement safety regulations because of a general distrust in the private sector but you wouldn't allow the same government to regulate private healthcare for its citizenry ...

hey, but what would you expect from an organization like the GOP that rely on stoking fear or stroking egos for their survival ...

JIm said...

Obama promises to cover 30 million new people and not raise taxes and costs. Americans are not stupid, thus the polls with Obama and Congress tanking. I believe an 18% approval record, for congress, is a record. If the Democrats are successful in forcing it through piece meal, it should be somewhat easier to reverse even if Obama overrides a new Conservative congress next year. It may take his defeat in 2012 to defeat it. America is better than socialist Europe. We out produce, defend and innovate. I believe that occurs because of our unique form of government and diverse people. Not even a socialist/progressive/Marxist anti American president can defeat us for long.

harryn said...

okay jim - i want to call you on your own words - not the propaganda links you usually site ...
I'd like to know, in your own words how Obama is, by definition a "socialist/progressive/Marxist anti American president" and how what he is doing is so different than than what Mr. Bush endorsed for the good of the country ... stick to the facts ... and using a dictionary is permissible ...
oh, and lets not forget who got elected and for what ...

Lally said...

I'm sorry, but since the brain surgery I have less of a filter and I can't help but notice that my childhood friend Jim has turned into some sort of rightwing automaton. To have read the links referred to in this post and all the other documentation out there on how the USA ranks way down at the bottom of industrialized democracies for healthcare results—from life expectancy to infant mortality to disease etc. etc.—and then claim that "America is better than socialized Europe" (which it is in some areas, but not healthcare Jimbo) is just logically idiocy, pure and simple, which means Jim's assertion is based either on mental deficits or on ideological brainwashing or a combination of the two.

JIm said...

Mike,
Canadian medical tourism would not thrive as it does if the US did not have a superior system.
Witness the
Canadian minister who traveled here for a heart procedure rather than subjecting himself to the inadequate Canadian system.

Paul, Here is a repeat.
Obama has said that he is not a Socialist, but what has he done?

1-Taught the merits of achieving socialist aims through community organizing using Saul Alinsky as a model.

2. Ran for state office on the Democratic Socialist Party ticket in the 90s.

3- Greatly expanded control of government over the economy by taking over auto companies and upended bankruptcy laws in order to pay off unions.

4- Expanded government control of the financial system.

5- Proposed a government run or socialist health care system. If current reported quotes from liberal congressmen are correct, he will pass his health care “framework bill” and than implement the government takeover in a subsequent bill.

6. In Colorado Springs at a rally in the spring of 08, he proposed a domestic army to be formed out of AmeriCorps, a’la Woodrow Wilson’s unconstitutional thugs the Eagle Corps.

7. He continues to trash the 10th Amendment. To be fair, better presidents than he have also trashed the 10th Amendment.

It would be easy to see Chavez, Lenin, Mussolini, Castro and Hitler endorsing the same policies. It would be inconceivable imagining Washington, Jefferson, Madison or Reagan endorsing his policies.

March 5, 2010 12:46:00 PM EST

harryn said...

oh jim, i asked you to stick to the facts - i even said you can use the dictionary [even palm notes if you like], but there you go with the automaton thing again ...

- the healthcare system debate with you is starting to get boring - i can site people who go to Europe to gain access to medications that haven't yet been condoned by the AMA - even to alternative practices in third world countries ... many times a doctor you could trust lives and works where they do more because of circumstances beyond their loyalty to a healthcare system ...
point by point responses:
1. the 'socialist aims' you refer to imply something much more sinister than his objectives to work collectively toward solving problems - by your standards, Walmart is Nazi in its origin - a lot of fine lines you smudge for convenience ...

2. yes, the D.S. party was created to help offset the imbalance between corporate bureaucracies and the millions of lives their decisions effect - particularly in the greater detroit area in the 90's ...

3. i think we can all agree at this point that something had to be done at a critical time whe he "inherited" the result of bad legislation from the previous eight years - did he make mistakes? time will tell but there were few viable options at the time ...

4. once again - any regulation is an assertion of control over no regulation - but in the same way a parent has to reel in a wayward child, the financial system - after collapse needed some grounding ...
most parents aren't popular for it either ...

5. again, anyone with medical insurance who objects to government run programs should waive their medicare and medicade benefits, but i don't see this happening among its opponents - besides, the majority of people who elected Obama expect to see it done ...

6. Americorp, Peace Corp, EagleCorps, National Guard, Emergency responders, Fema ... In the face of domestic tragedy it seems we're always short-handed but the problem stems more from management of previously existing resources than the implementation of new programs - unless the new programs are leaner, meaner, and more effective ... we won't discuss the sub-contracted military of the previous eight years ...

7. "trashing" is a rather reactionary perspective - everything in the bill of rights has been nuanced for the sake of appropriateness - isn't that Cheney's argument ? - anything ratified in 1791 has gone through changes, including revisionist interpretations ...

In fairness, there were a lot of things both despicable and contradictory to the way Washington, Jefferson, et al. conducted business, but the comparisons to Chavez, Lenin, Muss, Castro, Hitler are all for GOP fear effect - lets face it, if any of that were true, you would have been carted off a long time ago - to put Obama in that category is as bigoted and unjust as a sentient human being can be ...

though i've enjoyed the folly of our banter on occasion, i'm sorry to say i've got to cease and desist from involvement with exchanges that are both futile and untrue jim ...
cheers ...

Lally said...

Check this out:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/08/palin-crossed-border-for_n_490080.html

'nuff said.

Butch in Waukegan said...

"Nuff said?

But the hypocrisy never ends.

JIm said...

"Nuff Said"

Said Palin:
“My first five years of life we spent in Skagway, Alaska, right there by Whitehorse. Believe it or not – this was in the ‘60s – we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn’t that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada.”

Note: I believe this occurred two years before the Canadian Socialist Health Care System.

There are about 25,000 people waiting for surgery or diagnostic scans at hospitals in Calgary. Cities across the country face similar backlogs. Many people have to wait for up to a year just to see a specialist who then assigns the patient to the growing queues.
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=candian+medical+tourists&d=4617119982291179&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=7faea8f9,51b18e91

JIm said...

Popular opinion of the Hopey
Changey President. OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL

CBS poll: Obama flunks 1st year
6 in 10 give him 'F'; another 25% grade him with 'D'

-
Posted: March 09, 2010
9:21 pm Eastern

JIm said...

More Canadian Healthcare Tales-Death Panels are alive in Canada

Kent Pankow lives in Edmonton, in a province and a country that is trying to either kill him or bankrupt him.

No sense mincing words.

Suffering from brain cancer, Kent Pankow was literally forced to go to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn. for lifesaving surgery — at a cost to family and friends of $106,000 — after the health-care system in Alberta left him hanging in bureaucratic limbo for 16 crucial days, his tumour meanwhile migrating to an unreachable part of the brain, while it dithered over his case file, ultimately deciding he was not surgery worthy...
http://www.thefoxnation.com/canada/2010/03/11/death-panel-canada-tries-kill-or-bankrupt-sick-man